CODY. Yup
JACK.—“Hey J-u-n-e,” and we imitate your father, “Hey man, Red, ab—bring up the wine!” There’s a connection between Bull, W. C. Fields and your father so I’m gonna tell you about the original Bull
CODY. Oh yeah
JACK. The first time that I saw Bull, 1944—what were you doing in 1944?
CODY. Yeah I was in jail, most of the time, the latter half of the year, the first half of the year I was—
JACK. California?
CODY.—the latter half of the year I was…coming from California; I know ‘forty-four backwards and forwards
JACK. Let’s see, I was twenty-two, and you were…eighteen, seventeen
CODY. (figuring) Eighteen…just turned eighteen February
JACK. And Irwin was there and he was eighteen too
CODY. Oh yeah, he’s the same year as I am three months younger
JACK. But this was even before Irwin showed up
CODY. Ah huh (waking) Oh yeah? I didn’t know that, see, I thought Irwin knew Bull before you did
JACK. We’re sitting in Bull’s room one night—
CODY. Now wait a minute, you gotta begin at the beginning with Bull
JACK. Oh the beginning? Well I told you about the beginning—
CODY. No!
JACK.—coupla weeks ago
CODY. Where’d you first meet him?
JACK. Alright, now let’s see, now I was—
CODY. I mean you don’t have to get involved, but I mean, just—
JACK. Yeah. But in those days I was living with Elly and all I did was hang around with a towel around my waist. Bare, naked…because I was always taking showers in the hot summer and I didn’t give a shit about anything but being comfortable…
CODY. You lived up round Columbia and you’d just gotten out of, finished college, quit, or began, or it was—
JACK. Oh no no! it isn’t that simple (laughing)
CODY. No I see, no, course not, but I’m just trying to get, ah, connected, like I know 1944 in three movements
JACK. I had just taken two big trips in the merchant marine, and been hungup and everything, and I had, ah, oo, you know, wah, but I was now rebelling against working in the merchant marine and shit and sailing and being a big this and that, and I was fartin around being a big Bohemian, living with Elly. Naturally all the cats, all the kids, the Bohemian kids from the neighborhood came up, but, I didn’t even think about that—because all I thought about then was eating and fucking, see, as I should, as all men should all the time
CODY. That’s right
JACK. So that when Bull came in, see, I was in—Julien had come around, and Dave had come around—
CODY. Where’d you meet Julien? See I don’t know where any of this began
JACK. Well, while I was in Liverpool on the…merchant marine, on a ship, Elly…run around the bars, with June, see she was June’s roommate!
CODY. Oh I see…see, now, I don’t know any of that!
JACK. They lived together. When I left to go to Liverpool they were living on Nineteenth Street…One hundred and nineteenth Street…I said “I’ll be back.” When I got back they were living on One hundred and eighteenth Street, they’d moved around the corner, and in that interim, while moving around the corner, they went to my house in Ozone Park and got all my records, I told ’em “Go to my house and get all my records!” My mother and my father said “Who are you?” Elly, June, they never met, see. They said “Jack told us to come over and get the records,”—so my mother said, my father said “Well alright but we don’t even know who you are.” But they got the records, came back, long trip—I came back from Liverpool…it was raining? I came to the door, I knocked on it, Elly came to the door in her shorts, she said “Ao! I never thought I’d see you again!” y’know. And then, she melted right away you know, and I said “The first thing I’m going to do Elly—” and June was there, I said “Hello June,” see, I said, ah, and June said “Ah ho, ah ho, Elly’s gonna get…screwed tonight,” you know, and I said “Yeah, that’s right” and I go out on the phone, I call up Lionel—
CODY. Oh Lionel
JACK. And I say, ta ta ra ta ta ra ta ta (riffing “Crazy Rhythm”) You know what I actually did? What did I actually say! Over the phone I actually riffed something, see? De te re, somethin like that, and Lionel said “Yeah man, Ja—it’s Jack!” I said “That’s right, it’s Jack.” He came running over and we talked awhile and he went back and that night was the first night that Elly blew me, you see, cause June had told her “Blow Jack”
CODY. Great, great, great
JACK. So here we are fartin around, and, ah, she had been in the West End and met Julien—“Who’s Julien?” He’s th—sittin, standin at the bar, or sitting at some table with five, six, seven, eight guys or maybe blonds with him…. Aaaaa (nasal imitation) see, he’s talkin like Rimbaud, the way—he was really magnificent in those days
CODY. I guess he was yeah
Gabin, see, I’m runnin around there, I’m lookin around, and there’s Julien, he looks around, and, we’re both talking to each other, see, (laughing) What’s the meaning of this? What’s that?
CODY. (whispering) That’s the machine
JACK. Yeah…yeah (both listen)
CODY. Really is you know! If you turn it on—
JACK. It bugs me, you know?…My first impression of Julien was, he was a mis—mischievous—
CODY. Oh yes
JACK.—horseshit
CODY. Yeah
JACK. You know, character, you know, and I said, “Who the fuck, is this the big Julien Love?” And he come around and he had, ah, yellow hair hanging over his eyes, and lookin around and real coy, you know—I didn’t think of—anything of him! Then one night I come in the West End, he’s sitting in a booth with a guy with a great big red beard who’s just like—and he said “Jack, doesn’t this guy look just like Swinburne?” I said “He sure does.” He says “This is Dave Stroheim, the guy I told you about from St. Louis…the guy that’s been following me, all over the country.” “Hiya Dave.” “How are you, hello Jack.” See? And then finally one day Dave, came around a couple times, and he always talked, do you know how he talked to me?
CODY. Huh-hm
JACK. He would talk in graduating tones until finally you couldn’t hear him any more…except when he talked to Julien, then he talked always on the same level, but anybody else, it didn’t matter whether it was a man or a woman, he just didn’t really want to talk and he sort of faded away
CODY. Amazing. I—
JACK. So he came around, he had a, a pair of seersucker trousers, but Hubbard had the seersucker trousers and the coat and the hat—
CODY. Oh yeah
JACK…. or some kind of hat…
CODY. A black hat! just like that (pointing at black brakeman slouch hat)
JACK. Yeah, that’s the kind he wears, slouch hat. Only it isn’t so slouchy, beautiful! And there was some kind of—when he came in he said “Jack, I finally brought Hubbard around,”—I had already heard about Hubbard, my impression of Hubbard was of a short, squat…tough guy…I…hearin, you know, you hear a guy, you hear about a guy continually—
CODY. Yeah, Yeah, that’s right
JACK.—and you say “That guy must be a tough guy”
CODY. Yeah, you think he’s got somethin
JACK. Big tall, lank, sort of shy, meaningless, unimportant little guy, but thin, and tall, comes up to me and says “Well, ah”—so, I sat on a hassock, in the middle of the room, see Elly was sleeping, it was the middle of the afternoon, I had just fucked her and—and I had got up, took a shower and they rang the doorbell as I was coming out of the shower, with a towel around me. So I opened the door, and I put on my wino pants, chino pants, and t
hey came in, and I sat on the hassock and they sat on the couch. The sun was always shining, it was always hot, into this room, the top floor of a pad, see, One hundred and eighteenth Street, and I said “Well, shipping’s pretty good, Bull you can go out there, and you can get papers, and I’ll—”
CODY. Oh, Bull shipped to sea
JACK. No, no, he was just asking questions, he was…making friends with me
CODY. I see
JACK. See? He said “Well, I have seaman’s papers and I’ve…thought of going to sea several times when I was down…so and so…Philadelphia and so and so…but I’m not really—right now I’m serving summons, and so on, I’m a bartender—”
CODY. (snorting, sniffing) That’s—that’s him snortin…I can’t snort like he does ’cause I have a bad nose
JACK. I dug Hubbard at—
CODY. Let’s see you snort…. (Jack snorts) Well…that’s it, yeah that’s it, it’s in the throat—
JACK. Well he didn’t—
CODY. It’s in the throat—he didn’t then?
JACK. No
CODY. He didn’t then
JACK. He went…he went through a long process to come to that, man
CODY. I see, I see, oh I know—but I thought it was in—
JACK.—it involved Val…Hayes?…it involved everybody
CODY. Well he was pretty normal
JACK. Of course, at that moment when he came in, with that seersucker suit, June…June wasn’t there, she was in the hospital…having her baby, Julie…
CODY. Oh. Je-sus Christ, ah-huh
JACK. See? from that month on…on into August, and in between June and August everything happened, the murder took place
CODY. No kidding, while June was having Julie, I see!
JACK. So that when June came back with, with Julie, ah, everybody was in jail, everybody was gone, and she just merely got a new pad on a Hundred and ah—
CODY. By herself? Yeah…she was, because…I remember
JACK. Yeah, she was, because well I—yeah. But…you know the first time I met June?
CODY. No
JACK. It goes even further back…1943. I came out of the Navy nuthouse (Cody laughing, Jack confidential)…and I came, and I took a Elevated ride to my new house where my mother and father lived, and wondered about it, you know, I mean that fucking Elevated was—
CODY. Where was it?
JACK.—taking a big curve, Ozone Park where you used to stay with me see? You know where the Elevated takes a curve?
CODY. Jeez, you’ve lived there since ‘forty-three? the same place? on the second floor?
JACK. Yeah, yeah. Remember where it takes a big curve and you think you’re gonna fall?
CODY. (whistling) Yeah!
JACK. I said “Jesus Christ! I’m gonna do this—”
CODY. Yeah
JACK. Er, I got out there, it was early morning, I walked there—My mother and father were there, the piano!!! fucking goddamn ten-dollar piano they carried, they spent twenty-five dollars to ship it from Lowell!
CODY. Yeah, at least—
JACK.—was there, everything was there, all the things of my family, except my sister was in the WAC now, WACS?
CODY. Oh yeah, WAC. I’ll be damned, I didn’t know that, you know. Go ahead
JACK. Yeah. So…so we went—and, ah, at that time, I had begun to grow warts on my cock—
CODY. Amazing! That’s…supposed to be great you know
JACK.—I used to sit in the toilet and look at the warts all over my cock
CODY. Amazing!
JACK. I said “Jesus Christ, my end has come, I’m doomed”—(laughs)
CODY. No…I would feel real great—
JACK. Twenty-one years old! Think of it, how young!
CODY. Jesus, yeah. I’d feel great if that happened to me, you know—
JACK. I said “I gotta go find Elly”
CODY. No kidding
JACK. Where was she? Asbury Park. I hitch-hiked to Asbury Park…when I got there, I was exhausted—
CODY. How’d you meet Elly? After you tell me how you—
JACK. Man, I had met Elly in 194-2! (Cody laughing) It all goes back to 1942!!
CODY. That’s where it begins
JACK.—when I came back from Greenland!
CODY. Je-sus Christ
JACK.—with a eight hundred dollar payoff in my pocket—
CODY. Oh, no wonder
JACK.—gave me mother about, say, three hundred?—five hundred I said “send it to me, send it to me,” she kept sending it to me, I was at Columbia, I went back to Columbia University to play football for a couple of weeks, see, quit the team, because I heard Beethoven
CODY. No shit
JACK. One afternoon it started to snow, Beethoven came on, it was time for me to go to scrimmage…the snow was falling…ta ta ta taaa! (Beethoven theme) ta ta ta taaa (each time Cody says Yeah solemnly listening) (as Jack solemnly sings) I said to myself “Scrimmage my ass…I’m gonna sit here in this room and dig Beethoven, I’m gonna write noble words,” you know—that’s the way I quit football (laughing) nothing more logical or less…logical
CODY. When was you in Hartford? Remember when you told me about Hartford? What year was that?
JACK. ‘Forty-one
CODY. ‘Forty-one, ha ha, I got you goin back…. Tell me ’bout June
JACK. June?
CODY. You met June, you went to Asbury Park, you’re tellin me how you met her
JACK. To find Elly! And I found her, and she had a big sunburn, and she said “You…you…you don’t wanna come back to me,” I said: “Yeah, yeah”—And we took a walk along the boardwalk and I went in the drugstore and bought a rubber, and she said, and she said “What’d you go in there for?” I said “Oh I bought some aspirins,” I said—actually I bought some sunburn lotion—and I did also, Noxzema…. We went up to her…MY room, and I said “Lemme put this…lotion on you,” see? over her red skin, see? (Cody whistling) We sat all afternoon on the beach and I had her necklaces on, on the beach, and some girls passed by, such beautiful cunts passed by, said “What is this, pagan? What is this boy here, a gypsy?” And here I was with these fucking—and I thought I was—
CODY. Earrings you mean
JACK.—and I thought I was dying because I had these…things on my cock, see? these…staples on my cock…
CODY. The staples, yeah
JACK. Man! And so I said “I’m an old man, I’m going to get fucked?!” And I…rubbed this lotion all over her all the way to her thighs, and, ah, then I had a hard-on, and I simply (clapping hands)…fucked her, see? And she said “I knew this would happen.” Then everything started up again! And in the morning, see? at night after I fucked her I passed out, cause I had a sunburn, she went across the street to her grandmother’s house, and in the morning she woke up, I went over there to pay my respects to grandmother, her sister—Elly came down the stairs all her face puffed up, from the sun, she had a real serious burn!
CODY. (listening) Oh yeah…(RECORD ENDS)
CONTINUATION OF SAME NIGHT ____________________
CODY…. and, ah, well she leaned over like this, see, and I’m sittin in the chair, and then she suddenly realized that it was showing, see, from the rear, you know, see, and I kept trying—
JACK. No, no, I can’t picture this
CODY. Can’t you?
JACK. No—where is this?
CODY. She’s bending over the kid, see, the thing comes to about here so it’s safe…ordinarily—
JACK. What thing?
CODY. This kind of a T-shirt type thing, she’s wearin, with no pants on, but she wore that all the time in the house—
JACK. I got a big story like that
CODY.—yeah, tell me about it
JACK. Same thing!
CODY. Yeah. The moment she realized it she straightened up, she…looked over her shoulder, see if I was watchin her—
JACK. Man!
CODY.—course I was watching intently
but I averted my eyes just in time; but still she knew I saw it, see, and—but that’s all, I mean there was no, like I say I was very careful—
JACK. Wa wa, what I was goin to say was, around 1945, or 19- no, wa, I dunno what year, 1946 when everything blew up, when Bull went to jail for…possession, and she took up with these hoo—hoodlums from Times Square…Blackie? a couple of other guys like that? (CODY, Oh yeah) Huck…introduced her to Blackie…she had to have somebody to pay the rent, so Huck went down to Times Square and picked, and got a bunch of guys that he already knew to pay the rent, see, not Phil Blackman, this is Blackie, this is, in fact, probably Willie’s—
CODY. Oh yes, that’s right, yeah—I remember that
JACK. See? And, ah, I wandered in there from Val Hayes, from, ah, that kind of jive, from the West End and all that horseshit, to see what was going on over there. And, ah, she was out of—out of her fucking mind on Benzedrine, and she came in, and she immediately stripped. I said “June what are you doing?” She said “Who are you you strange man, get out of this house.” Standing there…she didn’t strip…she, ah—Yes! (snapping fingers) Man she stripped! I was sayin “I’m not a strange man June, I’m Jack.” Huck was sleeping in what used to be Val Hayes’ bedroom, she went in there, knocked on the door, he said “Uuuh,” and she goes, she says “Jack is trying to rape me, Jack is…bothering me, Jack is annoying me”—Huck says “Well ba-by, I don’t know what to do.” She said “Well you’ve got to do something about him.” Finally she closed the door behind her and went in to talk to Huck about it, apparently though standing in the middle of the room, you know, and Huck’s in the bed saying “Well I’m all hungup baby I—”—I’m standing out there, I’ve had a glimpse of her ass…but a year before that I screwed her, ah you know what I mean. That’s the way it always was
CODY. Hmm. How’d you meet Huck? Where’d he come in? How’d he start? He was, how’d—he must have known June and them before
JACK. Oh man, how I met Huck!…See, here I am with Bull sittin on a park bench, I’m sayin to him, I’m sittin in Washington Square, saying, “Bull,” I’m saying, “Jesus Christ, people die don’t they, I mean, what happens when you die? What happens after you’re dead? what goes on?” Bull says, “Well, when you die you’re dead, that’s all,” he says, “they just don’t…do anything but d-i-i-i-i-e…. (extending die for two seconds) So, you see, it’s always like that, see, but, always going up and down Eighth Avenue the two of us. We preferred, don’t know what for, Eighth Avenue; we used to go up, there was a bar there called Kieran and Dinneen’s—